Vanilla Civ 5, just bought it on Steam. I've created an earth map game on Prince difficulty and figured i need ONE civ to be friends with throughout the entire game. Just one that isn't trying to kill me 100% of the time would make me feel a lot less alone in this world full of history's greatest sociopaths (Alex, Askia, Bismark, Caesar, Ghengis) and such comfort this provides i'll do whatever is needed to maintain it.
Well, that was the plan anyway. I figured I'd rather cosy up to Catherine or Wu given the choice, since Wu is extremely reticent about allowing anyone into her friends club it'd have to be Cathy.
Well, she's certainly very keen to be friends in this game. The problem is that she's declared War on me four times already. My spawn point was modern day Iraq and it's got some pretty sweet luxury tiles. My first two cities are here, doing very nicely, the other two in north africa, not growing quite so fast thanks to the arid climate.
She's about where Russia should be. The diplomacy screen indicates she covets territory i own. She keeps pulling the "shall we declare war on......." and then attacking me backstab. After about the 4th time i got tired of this and tried pulling my units back to north africa. I traded my second city to her and when the next DoW came i didn't bother defending my capitol and allowed her to take it. To my surprise, she then offered a white peace, and didn't attack my weakened civ for the rest of the game, even after her getting nukes.
Anyway, I decided to reload that save and not give my capitol away. Perhaps it was just coincidence that giving up my two biggest cities stopped her attacks, as she stopped harassing me in this version of the game too, circa 1500AD. Instead, she suggested i go after Askia, and didn't pull another backstab.
I wiped the guy out, then she suggests Rome. I attack from the West, she from the east, she caps two cities and i four, wiping them out also. I trade all the Roman cities to her, not wanting any more unhappy citizens.
In southeast Asia we have Elizabeth and in Vladivostok we have Bismark. Of course, Catherine, Elizabeth and Bismark have spent most of the last 3 thousand years at war. The Germans have capped the first three English cities, neither Liz or Cathy have made any gains. ATM Bismark is currently at peace with Cath who was been in a long war with Liz. Bismark then DoWs Liz as well and it looks like she's going to get wiped out.
Since Catherine is going to want to take out Bismark soon anyway I decide to DoW him and wipe out his attack on the current English capitol. I trade one city back to Liz and the rest go to Catherine, who also DoWs Bismark a few turns later. I reduce him to two little cities up in the far north and east of siberia + japan before making peace - revenge for nuking me in the last game.
But when i go to trade these cities to Catherine, she absolutely hates me. Apparently, I'm a warmongerer and I'm holding land she covets (again). I decide to play scientific the rest of the game, which simply adds "I have built wonders that she covets" to her list of grievances. She DoWs just before my ship is built, i fend off the attack, she signs a peace treaty, and the game is won. But what happens if i don't launch my ship?
I try trading away all my cities (except Capitol, ofc) to her. No, still hates me, still covets my land. The very next turn she DoWs. And Nukes :nuke: The next turn, she nukes it again:nuke: and again the next :nuke: and again :nuke: and again! :nuke:
5 nukes in a row is what i'd call extreme prejudice. I let the game roll on after being wiped out , let it carry on playing itself for another sixty years or so. Catherine still hates and won't make peace. She hasn't finished with me yet, even though i'm dead. Elizabeth sits on a glowing radioactive throne and still greets me as "the bloodthirsty one".
So, obviously i messed up diplomacy big style here. I need to replay from that 1500AD year when Catherine stops harassing and sends me after Askia. From what i've subsequently read, wiping out Askia and Rome was a big mistake, and explains why neutral civs hate me. Fair enough. Cath was still friendly up until i recaptured London from Bismark and gave it back to Liz. After that she got and stayed bent out of shape. She decided i was bloodthirsty and was holding land she wanted again, even though i gave every city captured to her at that point.
I'm wondering, when i captured those German cities which she wanted, even though i immediately trade them to her, they still count as land she wanted in my posession? i.e. the AI doesn't realise I gave them back to her?
Also, a question on these "Shall we declare war with? " pacts.
The advice seems to be you should always say no to these. One, i'm racking up "belligerence" , even with Catherine when she suggested the war? However, won't she hold it against me if i refuse?
It seems fighting on the same side against a common opponent is a necessary bonus to even have a hope of getting a Defensive Pact going (what i'm really after).
So, i reload my 1500 AD save for a 3rd time, with the plan of not wiping anyone out, in fact not capturing any enemy cities at all. When she suggests fighting Rome, i'll put my troops amongst her attack and bombard/wipe out defenders, but i'll let her units to the occupying.
Unfortunately the random number generator seems to have rolled again and she just came up with another backstab :(
Well, that was the plan anyway. I figured I'd rather cosy up to Catherine or Wu given the choice, since Wu is extremely reticent about allowing anyone into her friends club it'd have to be Cathy.
Well, she's certainly very keen to be friends in this game. The problem is that she's declared War on me four times already. My spawn point was modern day Iraq and it's got some pretty sweet luxury tiles. My first two cities are here, doing very nicely, the other two in north africa, not growing quite so fast thanks to the arid climate.
She's about where Russia should be. The diplomacy screen indicates she covets territory i own. She keeps pulling the "shall we declare war on......." and then attacking me backstab. After about the 4th time i got tired of this and tried pulling my units back to north africa. I traded my second city to her and when the next DoW came i didn't bother defending my capitol and allowed her to take it. To my surprise, she then offered a white peace, and didn't attack my weakened civ for the rest of the game, even after her getting nukes.
Anyway, I decided to reload that save and not give my capitol away. Perhaps it was just coincidence that giving up my two biggest cities stopped her attacks, as she stopped harassing me in this version of the game too, circa 1500AD. Instead, she suggested i go after Askia, and didn't pull another backstab.
I wiped the guy out, then she suggests Rome. I attack from the West, she from the east, she caps two cities and i four, wiping them out also. I trade all the Roman cities to her, not wanting any more unhappy citizens.
In southeast Asia we have Elizabeth and in Vladivostok we have Bismark. Of course, Catherine, Elizabeth and Bismark have spent most of the last 3 thousand years at war. The Germans have capped the first three English cities, neither Liz or Cathy have made any gains. ATM Bismark is currently at peace with Cath who was been in a long war with Liz. Bismark then DoWs Liz as well and it looks like she's going to get wiped out.
Since Catherine is going to want to take out Bismark soon anyway I decide to DoW him and wipe out his attack on the current English capitol. I trade one city back to Liz and the rest go to Catherine, who also DoWs Bismark a few turns later. I reduce him to two little cities up in the far north and east of siberia + japan before making peace - revenge for nuking me in the last game.
But when i go to trade these cities to Catherine, she absolutely hates me. Apparently, I'm a warmongerer and I'm holding land she covets (again). I decide to play scientific the rest of the game, which simply adds "I have built wonders that she covets" to her list of grievances. She DoWs just before my ship is built, i fend off the attack, she signs a peace treaty, and the game is won. But what happens if i don't launch my ship?
I try trading away all my cities (except Capitol, ofc) to her. No, still hates me, still covets my land. The very next turn she DoWs. And Nukes :nuke: The next turn, she nukes it again:nuke: and again the next :nuke: and again :nuke: and again! :nuke:
5 nukes in a row is what i'd call extreme prejudice. I let the game roll on after being wiped out , let it carry on playing itself for another sixty years or so. Catherine still hates and won't make peace. She hasn't finished with me yet, even though i'm dead. Elizabeth sits on a glowing radioactive throne and still greets me as "the bloodthirsty one".
So, obviously i messed up diplomacy big style here. I need to replay from that 1500AD year when Catherine stops harassing and sends me after Askia. From what i've subsequently read, wiping out Askia and Rome was a big mistake, and explains why neutral civs hate me. Fair enough. Cath was still friendly up until i recaptured London from Bismark and gave it back to Liz. After that she got and stayed bent out of shape. She decided i was bloodthirsty and was holding land she wanted again, even though i gave every city captured to her at that point.
I'm wondering, when i captured those German cities which she wanted, even though i immediately trade them to her, they still count as land she wanted in my posession? i.e. the AI doesn't realise I gave them back to her?
Also, a question on these "Shall we declare war with? " pacts.
The advice seems to be you should always say no to these. One, i'm racking up "belligerence" , even with Catherine when she suggested the war? However, won't she hold it against me if i refuse?
It seems fighting on the same side against a common opponent is a necessary bonus to even have a hope of getting a Defensive Pact going (what i'm really after).
So, i reload my 1500 AD save for a 3rd time, with the plan of not wiping anyone out, in fact not capturing any enemy cities at all. When she suggests fighting Rome, i'll put my troops amongst her attack and bombard/wipe out defenders, but i'll let her units to the occupying.
Unfortunately the random number generator seems to have rolled again and she just came up with another backstab :(