That's me in the corner. That's me in the spotlight. Losing my Religion.
*Queues the hit single by R.E.M*
So, I'm playing a game on Deity as the Mayan. The Tradition 4-cities opener was one city too many this time, an AI said he was friendly when he wasn't, and long story short, I was very late getting Pyramids up in the last cities. I'm thumbing my nose at 3 other civs that have enhanced already, and I'm still working on founding my Religion with the 4 faith per turn the Stone Circles Pantheon I was forced to take. Enhancing Civs took Religious Texts, Itinerant Preachers and Holy Order. What's more, I was beaten to Pagodas, Mosques, Asceticism, and Religious Center, and now I really only have Cathedrals available out of Followers I would want to take.
I'm looking at the three options of buiding the HS, using a Prohpet from Long Count, and waiting a few more turns for the natural prophet to found my religion. I haven't had enough faith to do anything other than found the third pantheon and wait patiently.
Here's what got me thinking. Ethiopia next to me took Pagodas and Asceticism, which were the two beliefs that I wanted, and he's also taken RT and is Missionary spamming. His founder is World Church, meh, and the Founders that I wanted (Ceremonial Burial and Tithe) are both taken. My choice of those still available would probably be Church Property or Interfaith Dialogue (which I've never used, but looks interesting). What I'm thinking of doing is just embracing his religion and get what happiness I can out of my investment without having to fight Ethiopia over it. Here's how I see the cost-benefit of the two options:
1) Keeping my Religion - First, the cost. To compete with the number of missionaries that Ethiopia is likely to generate, it would realistically take at least one, maybe two naturally-generated Great Prophets in addition to the one from Long Count, AFTER the two I would use to found and enhance. That's me taking an Engineer to rush HS, then prophet from the next Long Count after I get my first natural one. Even then, it might take a war and an Inquisitor to take care of the RT holy city about 20 tiles away. The benefit, probably around 20-30 GPT from Church Property, Cathedrals, and a third follower which would probably be Guruship, Religious Community, or Feed the World. I've settled for Church Property before, and it's not that much worse than Tithe, but I really wanted Ceremonial Burial, and Peace Loving is just not a suitable alternative imo. Cathedrals are not going to be good for me, since I don't plan on winning culture. The +1 faith per turn is really what kills it for me. I will usually be more or less satisfied in taking Mosques when Pagodas is unavailable, but not Cathedrals. Guruship or Feed the World is hard to lose, though I don't hear a lot of other posters placing high value on those, except in ICS.
2) Losing my Religion - This hadn't occurred to me at first, since I've yet to see a single LP where a player actively investing in faith piggyback's an AI's religion. But the benefits seem fairly good in this game. I can build Pagodas for the two happy, and Asceticism gets one more out of Pyramids. Of course, this will let me expand more and grow more pop. Happy is the main benefit I wanted out of religion this game. Another benefit is that now I could use Long Count for a Great Scientist Academy, or to rush a Wonder, and I could also focus on getting the NC up in my capital instead of HS/Great Mosque. I am going to be struggling in tech in this game, after all. I also might be able to squeak out some benefit from my own Religion even so. Initiation Rites doesn't look bad in this situation, since I will probably convert one or two cities before I lose the passive spread war, and maybe buy an extra settler in that time. Also, I could take Holy Warriors as a follower, still available in this game. For that to be used, I'd really only need my capital to be following my own religion, and I would just buy any the units I wanted there. I will probably need to warmonger a little for this game, besides.
3) Fight a Delayed Religious War - By this, I mean let Ethiopia spread some, use my Faith for Pagodas instead of extra Prophets and Missionaries, then wait until later for Inquisitors and Great Prophets to retake and build Cathedrals in my cities. Maybe I would start a war and raze some Ethiopian cities for some breathing room. I would probably take Itinerant Preachers, as it seems designed for this type of game. Of course, This option looks like a best of both worlds scenario, so I'm not sure how feasible it is to start crusading against an established RT religion in Renaissance and later.
The reason I'm posting this question instead of lurking is because I haven't found any place discussing the possibility of welcoming a AI's religion. I've seen LP's where the player wasn't interested in religion, but never one where religion was part of the game-plan, it didn't work out, and then the player decides to steal the Follower beliefs of the AI. I was thinking about reloading, but I don't like quitting on a game, and this idea occurred to me.
What would you guys do in this situation?
*Queues the hit single by R.E.M*
So, I'm playing a game on Deity as the Mayan. The Tradition 4-cities opener was one city too many this time, an AI said he was friendly when he wasn't, and long story short, I was very late getting Pyramids up in the last cities. I'm thumbing my nose at 3 other civs that have enhanced already, and I'm still working on founding my Religion with the 4 faith per turn the Stone Circles Pantheon I was forced to take. Enhancing Civs took Religious Texts, Itinerant Preachers and Holy Order. What's more, I was beaten to Pagodas, Mosques, Asceticism, and Religious Center, and now I really only have Cathedrals available out of Followers I would want to take.
I'm looking at the three options of buiding the HS, using a Prohpet from Long Count, and waiting a few more turns for the natural prophet to found my religion. I haven't had enough faith to do anything other than found the third pantheon and wait patiently.
Here's what got me thinking. Ethiopia next to me took Pagodas and Asceticism, which were the two beliefs that I wanted, and he's also taken RT and is Missionary spamming. His founder is World Church, meh, and the Founders that I wanted (Ceremonial Burial and Tithe) are both taken. My choice of those still available would probably be Church Property or Interfaith Dialogue (which I've never used, but looks interesting). What I'm thinking of doing is just embracing his religion and get what happiness I can out of my investment without having to fight Ethiopia over it. Here's how I see the cost-benefit of the two options:
1) Keeping my Religion - First, the cost. To compete with the number of missionaries that Ethiopia is likely to generate, it would realistically take at least one, maybe two naturally-generated Great Prophets in addition to the one from Long Count, AFTER the two I would use to found and enhance. That's me taking an Engineer to rush HS, then prophet from the next Long Count after I get my first natural one. Even then, it might take a war and an Inquisitor to take care of the RT holy city about 20 tiles away. The benefit, probably around 20-30 GPT from Church Property, Cathedrals, and a third follower which would probably be Guruship, Religious Community, or Feed the World. I've settled for Church Property before, and it's not that much worse than Tithe, but I really wanted Ceremonial Burial, and Peace Loving is just not a suitable alternative imo. Cathedrals are not going to be good for me, since I don't plan on winning culture. The +1 faith per turn is really what kills it for me. I will usually be more or less satisfied in taking Mosques when Pagodas is unavailable, but not Cathedrals. Guruship or Feed the World is hard to lose, though I don't hear a lot of other posters placing high value on those, except in ICS.
2) Losing my Religion - This hadn't occurred to me at first, since I've yet to see a single LP where a player actively investing in faith piggyback's an AI's religion. But the benefits seem fairly good in this game. I can build Pagodas for the two happy, and Asceticism gets one more out of Pyramids. Of course, this will let me expand more and grow more pop. Happy is the main benefit I wanted out of religion this game. Another benefit is that now I could use Long Count for a Great Scientist Academy, or to rush a Wonder, and I could also focus on getting the NC up in my capital instead of HS/Great Mosque. I am going to be struggling in tech in this game, after all. I also might be able to squeak out some benefit from my own Religion even so. Initiation Rites doesn't look bad in this situation, since I will probably convert one or two cities before I lose the passive spread war, and maybe buy an extra settler in that time. Also, I could take Holy Warriors as a follower, still available in this game. For that to be used, I'd really only need my capital to be following my own religion, and I would just buy any the units I wanted there. I will probably need to warmonger a little for this game, besides.
3) Fight a Delayed Religious War - By this, I mean let Ethiopia spread some, use my Faith for Pagodas instead of extra Prophets and Missionaries, then wait until later for Inquisitors and Great Prophets to retake and build Cathedrals in my cities. Maybe I would start a war and raze some Ethiopian cities for some breathing room. I would probably take Itinerant Preachers, as it seems designed for this type of game. Of course, This option looks like a best of both worlds scenario, so I'm not sure how feasible it is to start crusading against an established RT religion in Renaissance and later.
The reason I'm posting this question instead of lurking is because I haven't found any place discussing the possibility of welcoming a AI's religion. I've seen LP's where the player wasn't interested in religion, but never one where religion was part of the game-plan, it didn't work out, and then the player decides to steal the Follower beliefs of the AI. I was thinking about reloading, but I don't like quitting on a game, and this idea occurred to me.
What would you guys do in this situation?